Why your current contact center platform is losing you money – and how to solve it

Happy Thursday. Today's topic is why your current contact center platform is losing you money and how to solve it. Joining today's ISO, I do have two speakers. We have Ray Barreta, the senior principal senior solutions adviser from TTEC Digital. And we have Chris, and I'm sorry if I mispronounced the last name. Is it Bill? About it. Well, I didn't coach you ahead of time. Don't worry about it. Yeah. I would have loved that. The line business owner from Latitude by Janice says, now they have both joined, and sponsored this webinar. So I'm gonna go ahead here to them to start us with the agenda, and I'll see everybody at the end of this webinar. Hello, everyone. I'd like to thank everyone for joining us today. We know your time is valuable and really appreciate you, offering us some time to show us, to share our insights. Today, TTEC Digital and Genesys, myself and Chris, are going to share what we've heard from our collections customers about how shrinking margins and customer outreach has been impacted by the variety of contact center platforms and options that are out there that increase your costs and drive down effective engagement. Today's session, we'll we'll we're gonna line, we're gonna outline the challenges in today's collections environment as we've heard them from our customers. And we're gonna look at containing costs while adopting digital channels specifically and and implementing AI. We'll talk about three steps that agencies can take today to address costs and shifting customer trends. This includes selecting the right channels at the lowest cost, consolidating disparate solutions, and using AI enabled tools. We'll also provide real world TCO analysis to demonstrate the impact that these steps that we're gonna share with you today can have on your business. Before we get into it, I'd like to introduce our we'll introduce ourselves first. My name is Ray Baratta. I am a senior solutions adviser with TTEC Digital. In my role, I assist our clients in navigating a wide range of AI powered cloud solutions to enhance their ability to connect with their customers. Part of the charter that I have is to help unify the journeys our clients have around digital transformation and optimize customer experiences. But when we talk about collections, I have almost three decades of experience in CX and collections, specifically in voice and digital outreach where I've worked for dialer companies such as Alveria, Melida, if you've heard of those those guys, and Noble. As well as I've run a enterprise dialer operation for collections at Citibank, primarily with their Citi cards, line of business. I'm really looking forward to having this discussion with everyone. Chris, why don't you introduce yourself? Yeah. I was I was thinking, that's where we met when you were at, Citi. Right? That's right. And I think it was, like, twenty one years ago. It was it was a little bit a little bit ago. It was a wee bit of time. I, for those of you, who don't know me, I'm Chris Bialaj. I'm a senior director of business operations here at Genesys. My charter is to be one of the, line of business owners for the Latitude by Genesys platform. Latitude is a, is a collections management software, platform for the Arm space. We've been around since the nineties. Lot of, I think I see some of our customers were on the attendee list and a bunch of new folks as well. So we've been around a long time. Latitude, was acquired, years ago from the original owner by Interactive Intelligence. And then when Genesys acquired Interactive Intelligence, we came here. My background starts with a company called Soundbite Communications that I was with for ten years, and that's how I got into the collections space. Soundbite was, very deep into that space. And then when Genesys acquired us, I eventually moved over to the Latitude line of business, about six years ago. So I'm very pleased to be here, and I can't wait to see anybody at ACA next, in in about ten days. So looking forward to that. Let's go ahead and, get get moving to the next slide there. Now that you've met me and Chris, we'd like to take some time to kind of introduce you to our organizations, and I'll start. TTEC Digital offers customer experience consulting and technology services at the intersection of contact center, CRM, and AI and analytics. We leverage the industry's best technologies like Genesys Cloud and Latitude to drive innovative and successful business outcomes. We help our clients intersect with their customers and at the point of conversation. This means we are uniquely positioned to help our clients embrace and optimize voice and digital channels, reduce system spend and complexity, and harness the power of AI across the enterprise. TTEC Digital, you might recognize the name, has over forty plus years of BPO and technology services and implementation experience, especially in financial services and primarily and and specifically in collections, which has informed our tried and tested approach to CX outcomes, which is why we're a partner with Genesys. You can see on the screen our partnership with Genesys is very robust, fourteen time Genesys partner of the year, two hundred Genesys cloud deployments have been growing, and over seventy thousand Genesys contact center agencies managed globally. But that's but, Chris, why don't we why don't you tell us a little bit about Genesys itself? Well, if you're next slide, Bruno. If you're not familiar with Genesys, we're a leading contact, center as a service company. Been around since nineteen ninety. We have, this is a kind of an interesting slide. It we, have over a thousand financial services companies that are powered by Genesys solutions, and all of the world's top ten financial services companies use some level of Genesys. And we'll share this deck with you, and there's links to that to that proof there. But, sixty percent of the top ten North American financial services companies, eighty in in the other four regions on the globe. So, if you're not familiar with us, this is part of the reason we're having this webinar. We want you to become familiar with us and TTEC Digital. We think we have a wonderful partnership, and we're very excited about it. Next slide, Bruno. So a little bit about Latitude. We like to call ourselves the ultimate debt collection software for creditors, collection agencies, and debt buyers to manage accounts in the recovery process. We have cloud and premise based software solutions, get powerful features. The software is very robust, been around since I since the nineties. It's got everything that, people need. We also are very pleased with an integration to Genesys Cloud, a very nifty, very slick integration. All you really need are those two platforms and some agents, and that's why they sometimes call us collections agency in a box. So one of the reasons we are thrilled, to be doing this webinar and, thrilled to be working with TTEC, digital. Actually, if you just go back, is what we were looking for what what we wanted to do is extend Genesys Cloud's capabilities into the Arm space. And we were looking for a partner that has the technical don't worry about it, Bruno. I think we we won't be able to has a technical acumen and the will and the want to go into the Arm space and be, you know, for for lack of a better term, a tip of a spear for us. What that requires is at the highest levels of TTEC Digital, interest in this space and wanting to go after it and learn about it. And that's what we're really excited about. So TTEC Digital and Genesys has been working together for coming up on a year now and extending Genesys cloud capabilities to our ARM customers. And we are thrilled about the partnership. And, you know, if you get a chance to talk to me at ACA, I can ex I can expand on it. We're very excited, and I and I'm excited about this webinar. So I hope you find great value in it. You know, expanding on what Chris is saying, together, TTEC and and Genesys guide clients to successful CX outcomes. And c I and customer experience, employee experience, they're all tied together. But the way we do that, what we solve together is the ability to modernize the contact center, drive that CX innovation, that EX enhancement, making sure that your agents and your collectors are able to have the tools that they need to be successful. We can help you report together using, you know, data analytics solutions and industry specific solutions. We tie we tailor specific collections, space solutions together to ensure that you're you're supported, that you have the right resources in place, and that you can be successful with your business. Let's go on to the next one. Chris, what what are some of the challenges you're hearing from your clients today? Well, I I this one on the left probably can we could have had this for any slide over the last twenty years. But, I think, you know, because inflation has been such a big part, of, you know, not only global you know, certainly globally and certainly here in North America. I I keep hearing I can only describe as anger from my customers that their customers are really squeezing them during this period of time. More so, you know, margins have always been a you know, that's always an issue. But it I'm really hearing it from the last two years. And, you know, the banks are not giving you, more margin. And, if any if if I'm wrong, let me know, but I don't think I am. Additionally, a lot of our, you know, a good amount of our customers and and a good amount of our prospects as we're trying to introduce people to both, Latitude and Genesys Cloud, are really coming in with some really what we call bloated tech stacks. And I I use the, the avatar of good old Bob who, you know, started your tech stack back in ninety seven. He's long since become an expat in Bolivia, but his tech stack lives on. And you're sort of you know, in some cases, people feel like they're stuck with it. They can't make the change. It's and and it's really eroding those margins over there on the left as well. Evolving preferences, you know, back when I got into collections, you know, it was it was voice voice voice voice voice only, and we started peppering in, text messaging. But what what I, you know, what we're finding is that the kids and when I and I use the term loosely kids. People under thirty five don't pick up the voice call. Nobody uses their mobile phone to make a voice call pretty much any day unless you're, you know, you're you're working. They're not gonna a new number coming in is not going to get picked up. And and I tell, everybody, don't feel bad about that. These people won't pick up their parents' phone calls either. And so, you know, my I I don't even think I have ever had a phone call with both of my teenagers. So I think a lot of you guys are out there are are very similar. So, you know, what are we doing technology wise to manage those evolving preferences? Next slide. Now, you know, we're two two and a half years into regulation f. Regulation f, you know, we say, turns your tech stack needs upside down. Most of the folks in the Arm space were using human initiated dialing, also known as clicker agents, to launch manual calls very fast. I won't go, you know, go into the boring details, but, you know, technologies that that did this sort of cornered the market on your outbound. And, if you could advance the slides, Bruno, what that meant was you each of you were paying much higher per minute telephony costs. And then those non voice channels were poorly integrated into that. So it was, you know, it was very often an either or, not a lot of escalation back and forth to channel to channel. Now, you know, Facebook versus Duguid, you know, basically settled it. And, sometimes they get a little over the last two and a half years, they got a little pushback on that. But let's face it. The sup our supreme court doesn't agree on anything, but they did agree on this one nine to nothing that, Flickr agents no longer needed. And what I found is a lot of our customers are still, you know, somewhat using them, haven't really sort of you know, are still stuck with that even though you just don't need that power of dialing anymore. So that's where regulation have really turned it upside down. It used to be, you know, squeeze as many contacts as you can possibly get to maximize your live customer reach or or digital. Now it's seven attempts over seven days max. You have got to be precise about when you are when and where and who and what number and what contact point and what technology you're using to optimize your collection strategy. And, of course, compliance for not only voice, but all those digital channels as well. We expect more I think, if I had to make a guess, the voice regulation might is settled for a while, but digital is always, you know, sort of peeking around the corner. That's a good point. Go to the, next slide, please. I think, you know, one of the things that you you know, to kinda highlight or encompass what you were talking about there, Chris, is the ubiquity of smartphones, smart devices, the lack of lack of the ownership of of landlines out there. So the way we can connect to our our customers, the way we can collect from our customers, the the variety has has gone out through the roof. And we want them and then then we we we're at this point in time where, yeah, it used to be we and, again, Chris, you and I actually need to stop referring to things that were pre two thousand because this is, we're gonna date ourselves. Yeah. But it used to be everybody talked about CTI. Everybody wanted it. They knew they needed it, and then but nobody could tell you what it is. Well, the new CTI is AI. It's in the news. It's in it's in the it's in the fear structure. It's on it's under regulation. And AI is is the is the thing that folks are talking about, except for collections agencies as we've seen. Collections agencies tend to be a little bit more apprehensive about any type of big change, and that's especially so with regard to AI investment. Recent surveys we've seen show that forty percent of collections agencies have no plans to invest in AI. So that brings me to to an idea here. Maybe we can, we have a poll right here. And, Bruno, if you go ahead and launch the poll, what is your strategy for AI in twenty twenty five? No immediate plans? Plan to explore but not started? Currently testing but not haven't rolled out a holistic strategy? Or you're a hundred percent bought in and fully into fall fully enabled AI solutions. Go ahead and take a second and and and, respond to that poll if you would. I think we're we're curious. Will our slide match up to the, response on the poll? This this is always scary to put out here, Chris. Because if they all go a hundred percent, this is a we'll go ahead and end the conversation and then move on to to talk about something else. So you know? I I'm I'm very curious, on on the fourth option. Exactly. Yeah. When it what ends up happening because, I I think it's it's safe to say if you if you're in that category, you're, I I think you're in rarefied air. I think you are. I may even go out on on a on a limb and say you are a technology nerd, and you're totally, bought in. So I don't mean that in in a negative way. We're all we're all part of the support as we like. We still wanna talk to them because I'd like to see how that works. So Yeah. How we doing, Bruno? Are we, we'll have Give it just a few more seconds. Yeah. Thank you. I'm real this is this is this is the fun part. We got a drum roll. Yeah. Alright. Here are the results. You should be able to see them on your screen. Oh my goodness. Our data was right. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's good. Thank you. Let's go ahead and move on to the to the next, next slide. Let me close this. Alright. You know, it's it's funny because I think that that is interesting that we saw, you know, what we saw with that with the with that poll, that quick snapshot of the folks that are here, that there is this hesitancy or at least we're taking baby steps or iterative steps with with AI. And that's and that's that's perfectly okay because that's that's what we're seeing in the industry in general. Folks know that they that that that there's some power there. They know that there's a trend there, but we're trying to figure out how we do it. And the thing is with these challenges that that that that Chris laid out previously, you know, the real question is how do we get over those that those hurdles, whether it's that the trying to understand the regulatory environment, trying to understand, that why there's a stack and technology stack there in terms of number of different platforms you're using, or whether it's about digital transformation, digital channels, or AI usage. There are these are significant hurdles to look at, and we also know that this is the type of industry where the proof is in the pudding. We gotta show you. So we need to have a plan, and then that plan has to be proven out, that real investments across your tech stack will deliver meaningful improvements in TCO and recovery rates. So what we'll do is we'll go through our three steps, and these three steps are what we've seen are, in order to get to to a path to success. So the first step is selecting the right channel capabilities at the lower at the lowest per minute rate. Now we're gonna I'm gonna stop right here. So and Chris mentioned this before. Voice isn't going anywhere. Wanna make sure we recognize from the top voice is still the most relevant and the largest and most preferred means of interaction. That's going nowhere. We know we recognize it. However, the second thing to keep in mind is that we've seen a shift in demographics where the the highest growth the fastest growth in debt load has occurred among millennials and generation z. And their preferred means of interaction favors the increasing volume of non voice channels. Now let's just like, my daughter obviously would rather go hungry than actually call to order a pizza. And if she can't order online, she'll go she won't. And that's a generalized trend that we're seeing here in terms of most interactions. People wanna talk on the they wanna be able to interact on the device at of their choice. Lastly, optimizing non voice channels in a meaningful and intentional way will materially lower the cost per minute of of your interactions. And here's the thing. It you know, this isn't necessarily about shying away from, digital channels. It's doing that in an intentional and meaningful way. So this leads me to the next step in our journey. How do we get away from that a la carte channel selection process? Chris? Simply consolidating all your disparate solutions into a single cost efficient CCaaS platform. This is what we are hearing from our customers and our prospects. It's the wave of the future. What happens is, you know, we talked about a bloated tech stack. There are lots of outstanding point solutions out there, and many of you have cobbled together your solution over the years with these great products, maybe not so great products, maybe okay products, but you've cobbled it all together because you're kind of forced to you've sort of you know, you built your own custom contact center with all those capabilities. Out there in the marketplace now is what we are seeing is more and more customers are looking for one complete solution to handle it. And to not only to, limit the amount of work it is that takes to manage all these different vendors, but, simplify from a cost perspective, a personnel perspective. And, you know, there's a there's an old saying, you know, it's it's not the most positive thing, but one throat to choke sort of thing. We hear that from our prospects and our customers, and you're just like, I can't manage seven to ten different vendors anymore. I I I I'm I just can't do it anymore. So by consolidating, you treat all your channels with consistency, and then that, of course, aligns with the post regulation f collections landscape. It having it all working together in a single CCAS platform is the way to go. Real quick, Chris, because, this came up in the chat. I wanna make sure we address it. What supreme course established that you no longer need to, to click the dial or click text relieving you of CCPA claims. Yeah. Duguid versus Facebook. Duguid, d u g u I d, I believe, is the way it's spelled versus Facebook. Thank you. And because, you just mentioned reg f there. I wanna make sure that we we address that before we Yeah. And and to be clear, there was sort of two things that happened. The Facebook decision happened in the late spring, and then regulation f, took effect late in December of, I get my my years correctly. It was twenty two or I I might be getting my years correct wrong. It might be twenty one. But that same year, two big things happened that year. Excellent. So let's go to the next step. And this is the big one. This is the one that the poll kinda helped tease out where I saw, you know, almost, seventy five percent of the of the responses were around people were kind of testing the waters or looking at kind of hoping to do something. And that's that kind of is emblematic of what we were thinking because it's a big one. It's the the a lot of this this integrating AI enabled tools to drive performance will pull a lot of folks in this industry out of their comfort zone. You know, whether it's, you know, whether it's, just the idea of understanding what the risk is or or understand or lack of understanding in terms of what the what the tools are, what the use cases are, and under and the big thing is not having to adopt in in full, in total. And that's what we really wanna make sure that that we're talking about here, taking preliminary steps, iterative steps, and understanding the fact that that that AI can be a force multiplier for utilizing the layers and layers of data that are available available to you to be better optimized the the outreach that you're doing so that those customers that you wanna reach are are are available to you, that you consume that data in a meaningful way, and that you can utilize it and take action in three really distinct ways. The first one is the from an interaction standpoint, you know, you can use AI tools to be more to be more successful. Customer profiles, individual personalization can be can be used to determine best time to call, best channel to use, propensity to pay, all these little elements that we take for granted and that help target the the the your resources. All the factors that determine the best use of those resources and all those so so your engagements that you your your agents are doing engagements that win. The second part of AI is the AM empowers the efficiency of your collectors. We're talking about things like real time agent assistance, independent and objective agent scoring, automated dispositions, call summarizations, all lead to co to your collectors being successful and efficient. Lastly, AI enhances the customer experience. Every time you speak or interact with with someone, you have you have the ability to drive that experience even on a collections call. It was funny. You know, Chris, when you were working with me at Citibank Mhmm. They were they were really pushing that CSAT and n and NPS be forty to fifty percent of our agents' scorecard, which, you know, to even on a even on collections calls, even on late stage collections calls. Mhmm. And using AI because, you know, it's very manpower intensive to make sure you're dry you're looking at sentiment, but you can use AI to to deliver better sentiment and empathy, and it'll help deliver higher CSAT scores. You know? And that drives success as well. You know, Chris, we we you and I have been talking, and and we said I said earlier that the proof is in the pudding. I think, you know, we take these three steps together. It's interesting if we could kinda show folks what consolidation can do for them. And then, you know, and and see, you know, maybe maybe there's some real real world experiences that they can look at. Yeah. I think it's time we show them the the analysis. Alright. So this is a this is a bit of an eye chart, but so let me just sort of explain what everything is. There are three rows here, agency one, two, and three. Agency one is a hundred seats. Agency two, seventy five seats. Agency three fifty seats. Then there are three columns that are a three year TCO analysis, and then we did a the following three columns are the five year TCO analysis. So let's start with agency one. So what we did, we have a TCO calculator that basically and this is what I loved about. This is very simple. This is, at its most simple analysis. What are you using for outbound outbound? What are you using for your inbound? What do you do and then what are you paying for each of those? Then doing a side by side comparison with Genesys Cloud. In each of these, you know, I kinda rudimentary, just like, what are you paying for this, and what are you paying for that, and what would you pay for this, is, in every case, three year savings and five year savings, a very nice, reduction, for total cost of ownership. And that really, Ray, came down to mostly per minute voice costs. So what this I hope this slide provides is a a ticket to just sort of say, hey. I can I can test this, do a TCO analysis? And and even if all of the stuff that Ray and Chris are talking about about AI is a bunch of bunk, I'm still gonna save money. I'm still gonna improve my margins. And if the things that Ray and and Chris are talking about from an AI perspective and the things that are on the road map for Genesys Cloud and all the exciting things that haven't even been dreamt up but are will be able to be brought into the Genesys Cloud platform, I'm well positioned to continue to improve these numbers. So these are very simple, simple numbers. I'll I'll summarize this. So what we would love for you to do is to reach out to us and say, hey. I'm interested in doing a TCO. That's there's no obligation. We'll bring in we have a we have a great team of folks who run these TCO analysis. We bring them in, do a little, you know, q and a, just dive into what you're currently using, and watch it in real time in this calculator and see what happens. That's really what we would like for everybody to do. At the same time, we'll look at some of these non voice channels, that Genesys Cloud is so outstanding at and are continuing to add different digital channels out there. It's a great way to accommodate those changing demographics that we talked about, because, I even though voice is king, still king, it's not always going to be that way. And then artificial intelligence is your TCO amplifier as I was discussing before. So, you know, what can you take advantage of today for AI? What can you think about over the next year or two? And then, you know, what what are those really brainiac people that we got working in our r and d department dreaming up for the future? You wanna make sure that you're placing your bets with a CCaaS provider that has that vision, that scope, that forward looking, technology road map that is going to position you to win year after year after year. Well said. Be before we move on, there's a couple more questions in the, in the chat. I just wanna make sure we we address those. I think the first one is, what is the best strategy around CTIA compliance or carriers that are blocking SMS text? And then and then the second part of that is the FCC's ruling that AI voice requires the prior expressed consent of the called party also raises a question of how to circumvent this requirement for outbound dialing. I think, first my first blush is, Chris, is circumvention is not the is not the is not the, the goal here. Whether you were putting, the you know, the the expressed prior consent of the called party has always been the, you know, where where it stood of what a dialer was, what a dialer wasn't. Yep. Especially with the ubiquity of the smart the smart devices, the fact that these are they're out there. The SMS one, I'm not as I'm not as sure about answering, but I can I can definitely the the basic blocking and tackling still need to be there in terms of getting the prior consent to to call a cell? If a customer and it's gotta be an opt in. It's not an opt out. So, you know, those are things that you can't you can't really, get around. But, yeah, at the same time, one of the things that AI can do in terms of in terms of a use case is to ensure that of the hundred thousand records you have or the two two or the, you know, the million records you have as part of that that that call profile standpoint is to see who has opted in or who needs a who needs a proactive mess who, who needs a message during interaction or during, whatever channel, or or through, approved channels to get that opt in going forward. And one so one of the things I've seen, for example, is, let's say you call a vendor as a customer, and, for the most part, agents will remember a Miranda that says, hey. Is it alright to call you on your cell or whatever? But a lot of times, they don't. Well, automated AI agent assistance can kind of make sure that that that that, that option has been taken care of in the course and preemptively in the course of the normal interaction before it becomes an issue on an out dial for for a collection call. What do you think, Chris? Good. Actually, I have a I have some thoughts around the blocking of the SMS. Sure. And and by the way, this this is not that new. We blocking of SMS has happened for, you know, ever since, SMS has been around there, but not all SMSes are created equal. We think of them as, you know, it's it's techno from a technology standpoint, yeah, somewhat. But it depends on where it originates. If you're originating your SMSs in, you know, offshore from North America in a country that or, you know, through some technologies and is bouncing around the Internet until it finally finds a cheapest you know, the cheap least cost routing, so to speak, in many cases. Those have a much higher tendency to be blocked than a company that is sending a huge amount of SMS messages and has excellent rapport with the various carriers. So, you know, somebody somebody can come to you and say, hey. We wanna we wanna we can enable your SMS messages, and I can give you this dinky price point. But, you know, if they don't land, you know, what are you paying for? So you need to be partnering with technology companies that can, you know, that at at the end of the day, somebody at the carrier is gonna say, these are good, and we know they're good because we like the practices and security and everything else that a company like TTEC and Genesys are bringing to the table. These are true CX, you know, types of companies, not fly by night sort of SMS providers out there. You can you can send out SMSes, bad SMSes, and pound people. I'm sure you're all everyone's getting election ones now, but, you know, those are those are delivered extremely cheaply. So though that just remember that as not every SMS is created equal. This is very similar to what you saw, you know, back in your sound bite days, right, with, with, you know, the the agentless campaigns that were out there or or Yeah. In SMS. Back then, it was free to end user touch Yeah. Free to end user stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. For sure. Yeah. So, I mean, it look. The I I think the way I well, I I I put it out there, yes, there are guardrails in terms of what we have to apply. There are benefits, in terms of, you know, being able to use that centralized platform, being able to, you you know, make sure that we're getting to voice the non voice channels because that usage is out there. An AI is an amplifier and an assistant. It's not an end state, you know, solution by in and of itself. There is no magic, you know, you know, terminator machine gonna go out there and go collect for you. What we wanna do is use these tools to to kinda pull our our our clients out of this corner that they sometimes find themselves, you know, by incrementally adding channels on an a la carte basis, by using different vendors to do different things for, you know, web chat or IVR or SMS or or and voice. That that stacking of the technologies really, inhibits your ability to drive good margins and and to get good outcomes for you for your clients. As as Chris mentioned, we wanna make sure or or we wanna help our our clients, ensure that they have a ubiquitous way of getting to their customers. And the whole point here is to get not only get to them, but you have successful outcomes, and that's that's what we're pointing towards. Are there any more questions? And if you go to the next slide, Bruno, I'd appreciate it. So, if you're attending the, the, the ACA, our our our resilient, Matt Coy, will be at booth number four fifteen, four one five, and he can, reach out and, schedule a meeting with him. He he can kinda connect you to both Chris and I. My name my email is out there as well. We'd love to, Chris excuse me. Are you sure you wanna have all these free TCO sessions? Because I you know, I wanna make sure that you're good for that. I'm signing this up. Don't worry. So, I don't see any more questions, and I think I think we we got there. Bruno, what do you think? I think so as well. In that case, I will wrap up today's webinar. As I mentioned in the beginning, this recording and the handouts will be uploaded to our ACA shop, free for all of you that have attended, at the end of the week, not Monday. But with that, I wanna thank you, both, Ray and Chris for doing this. We appreciate it. I'm sure our members appreciate it as well. The questions are great. So thank you for joining, and doing this ISO. Thank you everybody for attending on this Thursday. Have a great rest of your day. We will see you all next week, and we will see you in San Diego. Have a good one. Excellent. Thank you, everyone.